Notes and Queries, Number 35, June 29, 1850
Author: Various
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"When found, make a note of."—CAPTAIN CUTTLE.

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No. 35.] SATURDAY, JUNE 29. 1850. [Price, with index to Vol. I., 9d. Stamped Edition 11d.

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NOTES:— Page George Goring, Earl of Norwich, and his Son George, Lord Goring 65 MSS. of Bishop Ridley 66 Lines written during the Arctic Expedition 67 Folk Lore:—Legend of Sir Richard Baker, surnamed Bloody Baker—Cures for Warts—Charm for Cure of King's Evil—Fig-Sunday 67 Note on a Passage in Hudibras 68 Coffee, Black Broth 69

QUERIES:— Queries concerning Old MSS., by E. F. Rimbault 70 Minor Queries:—Chantrey's Sleeping Children in Lichfield Cathedral—Viscount Dundee's Ring—Kilkenny Cats—Robert de Welle—Lady Slingsby—God save the Queen—Meaning of "Steyne"—Origin of "Adur"—Colonel Lilburn—French Verses—Our World—Porson's Imposition—Alice Rolle—The Meaning of "Race" in Ship-building—The Battle of Death—Execution of Charles I.—Morganitic Marriage— Lord Bacon's Palace and Gardens—"Dies Irae, Dies Illa"—Aubrey Family—Ogden Family 70

REPLIES:— Sir George Buc, by E. F. Rimbault and Cecil Monro 73 "A frog he would a-wooing go" 74 Replies to Minor Queries;—Carucate of Land— Golden Frog and Sir John Poley—The Poley Frog— Bands—Bishops and their Precedence—"Imprest" and "Debenture"—Charade—"Laus tua, non tua Fraus"—Dutch Language—"Construe" and "translate"— Dutton Family—Mother of Thomas a Becket— Medal of Stukeley—Dulcarnon—Practice of Scalping— Derivation of Penny 75

MISCELLANIES:— "By Hook or by Crook"—Burning dead Bodies— Etymology of "Barbarian"—Royal and distinguished Disinterments 78

MISCELLANEOUS:— Notes on Books, Sales, Catalogues, Sales, &c. 79 Books and Odd Volumes Wanted 79 Notices to Correspondents 79 Advertisements 79

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G.'s inquiry (Vol. i., p. 22.) about the two Gorings of the Civil War—a period of our history in which I am much interested—has led me to look into some of the sources of original information for that time, in the hope that I might be enabled to answer his Queries. I regret I cannot yet answer his precise questions, when Lord Goring the son was married, and when and where he died? but I think the following references to notices of the father and the son will be acceptable to him; and I venture to think that the working out in this way of neglected biographies, is one of the many uses to which your excellent periodical may be applied.

Confusion has undoubtedly been made between the father and son by careless compilers. But whoever carefully reads the passages of contemporary writers relating to the two Gorings, and keeps in mind that the title of Earl of Norwich, given by Charles I. in November, 1644, to the father, was not recognised by the parliamentary party, will have no difficulty in distinguishing between the two. Thus it will be seen in two of the passages which I subjoin from Carte's Letters, that in 1649 a parliamentarian calls the father Lord Goring, and Sir Edward Nicholas calls him Earl of Norwich.

Burke, in his Dormant and Extinct Peerages, vol. iii., makes the mistake of giving to the father the son's proceedings at Portsmouth at the beginning of the Civil War.

Lord Goring the son, then Colonel Goring, commanding a regiment in the Low Countries, was, at the siege of Breda, September, 1637, severely wounded in the leg, and had a narrow escape of losing it. Sir William Boswell, the English ambassador at the Hague, writes to Bramhall, then Bishop of Derry, and afterwards Archbishop of Armagh:—

"Colonel Goring having the guard of the English in the approaches, was shot so dangerously cross the shin of his leg, a little above his ankle, as the chirurgion at first resolved to cut off his leg to save his life; but upon second thoughts, and some opposition by one of them against four, they forebare; and now, thanks be to God, he is gotten out of danger of losing life or leg this bout: his excellent merits caused a great sorrow at his misfortune, and now as great comfort in the hope of his recovery"—(Rawdon Papers, p. 39.)

That the son was already married to Lady Letitia Boyle at Christmas, 1641, appears from a letter of the Earl of Cork, the lady's father, to the Earl of Norwich (at that time Lord Goring), in Lord Orrery's State Letters (vol. i. p. 5. Dublin edition):—

"I have scarce time to present my service to you and your lady, and to George and my poor Letitia, whom God bless."

In Carte's Collection of Letters (vol. i. p. 359.) {66} is a letter from Lord Byron, dated "Beauvois, March 1-11, 1650," to the Marquis of Ormond, stating that Lord Goring the son has come to Beauvois, and is on his way to Spain, about the settlement of a pension which had been promised him there, and also to endeavour to get arms and money for the King's service in Ireland; and that, having settled his business in Spain, he desires nothing better than to serve as a volunteer under Ormond for King Charles. Lord Byron strongly recommends Ormond to avail himself of Goring's services:—

"I am confident my Lord Goring may be serviceable to your Excellence in many respects, and therefore have rather encouraged him in this his resolution, than any ways dehorted him from it; and especially because he is to pass by the Spanish Court, where he hath such habitudes, by reason of the service both his father and he hath done that crown."

In an intercepted letter of a parliamentarian, dated Jan. 8, 1649, which is in Carte's Letters (vol. i. p. 201.), is the following mention of the Earl of Norwich, then under sentence of death by the High Court of Justice:—

"Our great minds say, Thursday the King shall die, and two or three great Lords with him, Capel and Loughborough being two of them. Goring hath gotten Ireton to friend, who excuses him yet."

Sir E. Nicholas writes, April 8, 1649, to the Marquis of Ormond, that the Earl of Norwich (as he styles him) has been reprieved at the suit of the Spanish and Dutch ambassadors. (Carte's Letters, vol. i. p. 247.)

In the following passage of a speech, in the discussions about the House of Lords in Richard Cromwell's Parliament, there is no doubt that the Earl of Norwich is referred to as Lord Goring: and I should infer that George Lord Goring the son was then dead, as he had unquestionably done more than enough to forfeit his privileges in the view of Commonwealth men:—

"What hath the son of Lord Goring or Lord Capel done to forfeit their right?"—(Burton's Diary, iii. 421. Feb. 22. 1659.)

George Lord Goring the son is referred to in another speech preserved in Burton's Diary, and is there called "young Lord Goring." (iii. 206.)

Pepys mentions the return of "Lord Goring" from France, April 11, 1660 (vol. i. p. 54.). Lord Braybrooke's note says that this was "Charles, who succeeded his father as second Earl of Norwich." Is it certain that this was not the old Earl of Norwich himself?

The death of the old Earl of Norwich is thus chronicled in Peck's Desiderata Curiosa, p. 542.:—

"Jan. 6. 1662-3, died Lord Goring on his passage by land from Hampton Court to London, at Brainford, about eighty years of age: he was Earl of Norwich."


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A "Note" in the Original Letters relative to the English Reformation, published by the Parker Society, p. 91., mentions the existence of an important MS. treatise by Bishop Ridley, which had been unknown when the works of that prelate were collected and published by the Parker Society in 1841. It seems to be desirable that the fact should be placed on record in your most useful publication: the "Note" is as follows:—

"A copy of Bishop Ridley's 'Conference by writing with M. Hoper, exhibited up to the council in the time of King Edward the Sixth,' was in the possession of Archbishop Whitgift: see his Defence of the Answer to the Admonition, A.D. 1574, p. 25. But its existence was unknown (see Ridley's Life of Bishop Ridley, Lond. 1763, p. 315.) in later years, till a copy, slightly imperfect, was discovered in 1844, in the extensive collection of MSS. belonging to Sir Thomas Phillips, Bart."

There is another MS. treatise by Bishop Ridley, that has been missing for nearly three centuries, respecting which I should be glad to offer a "Query:" I allude to Ridley's Treatise on Election and Predestination. The evidence that such a piece ever existed is, that Ridley, in answer both to a communication from prison, signed by Bishop Ferrar, Rowland Taylor, John Bradford, and Archdeacon Philpot, and probably to other letters from Bradford, wrote,—

"Where you say that, if your request had been heard, things, you think, had been in better case than they be, know you that, concerning the matter you mean, I have in Latin drawn out the places of the Scriptures, and upon the same have noted what I can for the time. Sir, in those matters I am so fearful, that I dare not speak further, yea, almost none otherwise, than the very text doth, as it were, lead me by the hand."—Works of Bishop Ridley, Parker Soc., p. 368.

And to this statement Bishop Coverdale, in the Letters of the Martyrs, Day, 1564, p. 65., caused the following side-note to be printed:—

"He meaneth here the matter of God's election, whereof he afterward wrote a godly and comfortable treatise, remaining yet in the hands of some, and hereafter shall come to light, if God so will."

Glocester Ridley, in his Life of Bishop Ridley, 1763, p. 554, states:—

"I never heard that it was published, nor have I been able to meet with it in MS. The great learning and cool judgment of this prelate, and the entire subjection of his imagination to the revealed will of God, make the loss of this treatise much to be lamented."

Could any of your correspondents offer any suggestion, or supply any information, which might throw light on the subject, or might give a clue to the lost manuscript? The treatise referred to {67} might possibly still exist, and, even if without Ridley's name, or in an imperfect state, might yet be identified, either from the handwriting or some other circumstance. Do any of your correspondents possess or know of any MS. on Election or Free-will, of the time of the Reformation, which might possibly be the missing treatise? Things turn up so curiously, in quarters where one would least expect it, and sometimes after more than three centuries, that one would willingly hope that this lost treatise might even yet be found or identified.



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The accompanying is from the pen of one of the officers who bore a prominent position in one of the expeditions under Sir Edward Parry in search of a north-west passage. Not having been in print, except in private circulation, it may be deemed worthy of a place in your valuable journal.



"The moments of chasten'd delight are gone by, When we left our lov'd homes o'er new regions to rove, When the firm manly grasp, and the soft female sigh, Mark'd the mingled sensations of friendship and love. That season of pleasure has hurried away, When through far-stretching ice a safe passage we found[1], That led us again to the dark rolling sea, And the signal was seen, 'On for Lancaster's Sound.'[2]

"The joys that were felt when we pass'd by the shore Where no footsteps of Man had e'er yet been imprest, When rose in the distance no mountain-tops hoar As the sun of the ev'ning bright gilded the west, Full swiftly they fled—and that hour, too, is gone When we gain'd the meridian, assign'd as a bound To entitle our crews to their country's first boon, Hail'd by all as an omen the passage was found.

"And pass'd with our pleasures are moments of pain, Of anxious suspense, and of eager alarm. Environ'd by ice, skill and ardour were vain The swift moving mass of its force to disarm— Yet, dash'd on the beach and our boats torn away, No anchors could hold us, nor cables secure; The dread and the peril expir'd with the day, When none but High Heaven could our safety ensure.

"Involv'd with the ages existent before, Is the year that has brought us thus far on our way, And gratitude calls us our God to adore, For the oft-renewed mercies its annals display. The gloomy meridian of darkness is past, And ere long shall gay spring bid the herbage revive; On the wide waste of ice she'll re-echo the blast, And the firm prison'd ocean its fetters shall rive.


[Footnote 1: Alluding to the ships crossing the barrier of ice in Baffin's Bay, between Hope Sanderson and Possession Bay.]

[Footnote 2: Telegraph signal made by H.M.S. "Hecla," on getting into clear water in July, 1849, having succeeded in forcing through the barrier.]

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Legend of Sir Richard Baker, surnamed Bloody Baker.—I one day was looking over the different monuments in Cranbrook Church in Kent, when in the chancel my attention was arrested by one erected to the memory of Sir Richard Baker. The gauntlet, gloves, helmet, and spurs were (as is often the case in monumental erections of Elizabethan date) suspended over the tomb. What chiefly attracted my attention was the colour of the gloves, which was red. The old woman who acted as my cicerone, seeing me look at them, said, "Aye, miss, those are Bloody Baker's gloves; their red colour comes from the blood he shed." This speech awakened my curiosity to hear more, and with very little pressing I induced my old guide to tell me the following strange tale.

The Baker family had formerly large possessions in Cranbrook, but in the reign of Edward VI. great misfortunes fell on them; by extravagance and dissipation, they gradually lost all their lands, until an old house in the village (now used as the poor-house) was all that remained to them. The sole representative of the family remaining at the accession of Queen Mary, was Sir Richard Baker. He had spent some years abroad in consequence of a duel; but when, said my informant, Bloody Queen Mary reigned, he thought he might safely return, as he was a Papist. When he came to Cranbrook he took up his abode in his old house; he only brought one foreign servant with him, and these two lived alone. Very soon strange stories began to be whispered respecting unearthly shrieks having been heard frequently to issue at nightfall from his house. Many people of importance were stopped and robbed in the Glastonbury woods, and many unfortunate travellers were missed and never heard of more. Richard Baker still continued to live in seclusion, but he gradually repurchased his alienated property, although he was known to have spent all he possessed before he left England. But wickedness was not always to prosper. He formed an apparent attachment to a young lady in the neighbourhood, remarkable for always wearing a great many jewels. He often pressed her to come and see his old house, telling her he had many curious things he wished to show her. She had always resisted fixing a day for her visit, but happening to walk within a short distance of his house, she determined to surprise him with a visit; her companion, a lady older than herself, endeavoured to dissuade her from doing so, but she would not be turned from her purpose. They {68} knocked at the door, but no one answered them; they, however, discovered it was not locked, and determined to enter. At the head of the stairs hung a parrot, which on their passing cried out,—

"Peepoh, pretty lady, be not too bold, Or your red blood will soon run cold."

And cold did run the blood of the adventurous damsel when, on opening one of the room doors, she found it filled with the dead bodies of murdered persons, chiefly women. Just then they heard a noise, and on looking out of the window saw Bloody Baker and his servant bringing in the murdered body of a lady. Nearly dead with fear, they concealed themselves in a recess under the staircase.

As the murderers with their dead burden passed by them, the hand of the unfortunate murdered lady hung in the baluster of the stairs; with an oath Bloody Baker chopped it off, and it fell into the lap of one of the concealed ladies. As soon as the murderers had passed by, the ladies ran away, having the presence of mind to carry with them the dead hand, on one of the fingers of which was a ring. On reaching home they told their story, and in confirmation of it displayed the ring. All the families who had lost relatives mysteriously were then told of what had been found out; and they determined to ask Baker to a large party, apparently in a friendly manner, but to have constables concealed ready to take him into custody. He came, suspecting nothing, and then the lady told him all she had seen, pretending it was a dream. "Fair lady," said he, "dreams are nothing: they are but fables." "They may be fables," said she; "but is this a fable?" and she produced the hand and ring. Upon this the constables rushed in and took him; and the tradition further says, he was burnt, notwithstanding Queen Mary tried to save him, on account of the religion he professed.

F. L.

Cure for Warts.—Steal a piece of meat from a butcher's stall or his basket, and after having well rubbed the parts affected with the stolen morsel, bury it under a gateway, at a four lane ends, or, in case of emergency, in any secluded place. All this must be done so secretly as to escape detection: and as the portion of meat decays the warts will disappear. This practice is very prevalent in Lancashire and some parts of Yorkshire; and two of my female acquaintances having tried the remedy, stoutly maintain its efficacy.

T. T. W.


Another Charm for Warts.—Referring to EMDEE'S charm for warts, which appeared in Vol. ii., p. 19., I may state that a very similar superstition prevails in the neighbourhood of Manchester:—Take a piece of twine, making upon it as many knots as there are warts to be removed; touch each wart with the corresponding knot; and bury the twine in a moist place, saying at the same time, "There is none to redeem it besides thee." As the process of decay goes on, the warts gradually disappear.


Charm for the Cure of the King's Evil.—Acting on the advice of your able correspondent EMDEE (Vol. i., p. 429.), I beg to forward the following curious and cruel charm for the cure of the king's evil, extracted from a very quaint old work by William Ellis, farmer of Little Gaddesden, near Hempstead, Herts, published at Salisbury in 1750:—

"A girl at Gaddesden, having the evil in her Feet from her Infancy, at eleven years old lost one of her toes by it, and was so bad that she could hardly walk, therefore was to be sent to a London Hospital in a little time. But a Beggar woman coming to the Door and hearing of it, said, that if they would cut off the hind leg, and the fore leg on the contrary side of that, of a toad, and she wear them in a silken bag about her neck, it would certainly cure her; but it was to be observed, that on the toad's losing its legs, it was to be turned loose abroad, and as it pined, wasted, and died, the distemper would likewise waste and die; which happened accordingly, for the girl was entirely cured by it, never having had the evil afterwards. Another Gaddesden girl having the evil in her eyes, her parents dried a toad in the sun, and put it in a silken bag, which they hung on the back part of her neck; and although it was thus dried, it drawed so much as to raise little blisters, but did the girl a great deal of service, till she carelessly lost it."



Fig-Sunday.—One of my Sunday-school boys, in reply to my question "What particular name was there for the Sunday before Easter?" answered "Fig-Sunday."

Can you give any authentic information as to the origin of this name? It most probably alludes to our Saviour's desire to eat fruit of the fig-tree on his way from Bethany on the Monday following.

Hone mentions that at a village in Hertfordshire, more figs are sold in that week than at any other period of the year; but assigns no reason for the custom. If you have met with any satisfactory explanation of this name, I shall feel obliged by your making it public.

B. D.

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Butler, in his description of Hudibras, says (Part I. c. i. line 453.) that the knight

"——wore but one Spur, As wisely knowing, cou'd he stir To active Foot one side of 's Horse, The other wou'd not hang an A——."

Gray, the most copious annotator on the poem, passes these lines in silence; and it is probable, therefore, that the description is taken by readers {69} in general as an original sketch. I find, however, in a volume entitled Gratiae Ludentes: Jests from the Universitie, by H. L., Oxen. [sic], London, 1638, the following, which may have been in Butler's mind:—

"One that wore but one Spurre.

"A scholler being jeer'd on the way for wearing but one Spurre, said, that if one side of his horse went on, it was not likely that the other would stay behinde."

As compilers of jest-books do nothing but copy from their predecessors, it is likely that this joke may be found elsewhere, though I have not met with it in any other collection. At all events, the date of the vol. from which I quote is in favour of Butler's intimacy with its contents; and as it is interesting, even in so trivial a matter, to trace the resources of our popular authors, you may perhaps think it worth while to include the above in a number of the "NOTES."


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The idea has been suggested in the "NOTES AND QUERIES," but I do not know how to refer to the places[3], or recollect what authorities were given. Probably that of Howell was not, as it occurs in a very scarce volume; and, on the chance of its not having been met with by your readers, I send it. It is contained in a letter addressed "To his highly esteemed Friend and Compatriot, Judge Rumsey, upon his Provang, or rare pectorall Instrument, and his rare experiments of Cophie and Tobacco." This letter is prefixed to the learned Judge's Organon Salutis: an Instrument to cleanse the Stomach, as also divers New Experiments of the Virtue of Tobacco and Coffee, &c. London, 1657, 8vo.

Howell says:—

"Touching coffee, I concurre with them in opinion, who hold it to be that black-broth which was us'd of old in Lacedemon, whereof the Poets sing; Surely it must needs be salutiferous, because so many sagacious, and the wittiest sort of Nations use it so much; as they who have conversed with Shashes and Turbants doe well know. But, besides the exsiccant quality it hath to dry up the crudities of the Stomach, as also to comfort the Brain, to fortifie the sight with its steem, and prevent Dropsies, Gouts, the Scurvie, together with the Spleen and Hypocondriacall windes (all which it doth without any violence or distemper at all), I say, besides all these qualities, 'tis found already, that this Coffee-drink hath caused a greater sobriety among the nations: For whereas formerly Apprentices and Clerks with others, used to take their mornings' draught in Ale, Beer, or Wine, which by the dizziness they cause in the Brain, make many unfit for businesse, they use now to play the Good-fellows in this wakefull and civill drink: Therefore that worthy Gentleman, Mr. Mudiford, who introduced the practice hereof first to London, deserves much respect of the whole Nation."

Of Judge Rumsey and his Provang (which was a flexible whalebone from two to three feet long, with a small linen or silk button at the end, which was to be introduced into the stomach to produce the effect of an emetic), the reader may find some account in Wood's Athen. (Bliss's edit., vol. iii. p. 509.), and this is not the place to speak of them except as they had to do with coffee; on that point a few more words may be allowed.

Besides the letter of Howell already quoted, two others are prefixed to the book; one from the author to Sir Henry Blount, the other Sir Henry's reply. In the former the Judge says,—

"I lately understood that your discovery, in your excellent book of travels, hath brought the use of the Turkes Physick, of Cophie, in great request in England, whereof I have made use, in another form than is used by boyling of it in Turkie, and being less loathsome and troublesome," &c.

And Sir Henry, after a fervent panegyric on coffee, replies:—

"As for your way of taking both Cophie and Tobacco, the rarity of the invention consists in leaving the old way: For the water of the one and the smoke of the other may be of inconvenience to many; but your way in both takes in the virtue of the Simples without any additionall mischief."

As this may excite the reader's curiosity to know what was the Judge's new and superior "way" of using coffee, I will add his prescription for making "electuary of cophy," which is, I believe, the only preparation of it which he used or recommended:—

"Take equall quantity of Butter and Sallet-oyle, melt them well together, but not boyle them: Then stirre them well that they may incorporate together: Then melt therewith three times as much Honey, and stirre it well together: Then add thereunto Powder of Turkish Cophie, to make it a thick Electuary." p. 5.

A very little consideration may convince one that this electuary was likely to effect the purpose for which it was recommended.

"Whether," says the Judge, "it be in time of health or sickness, whensoever you find any evill disposition in the stomach, eat a convenient meal of what meat and drink you please, then walk a little while after it: Then set down your body bending, and thrust the said Whalebone Instrument into your stomach, stirring it very gently, which will make you vomit; then drink a good draught of drink, and so use the Instrument as oft as you please, but never doe this upon an empty stomach. To make the stomach more apt to vomit, and to prepare the humours thereunto before you eat and drink, Take the bigness of a Nutmeg or more of the said Electuary of Cophie, &c., into your mouth; {70} then take drink to drive it down; then eat and drink, and walk, and use the Instrument as before." p. 19.

Should any reader wish to test the efficacy of the learned Judge's prescription, I am afraid he must make an "instrument" for himself, or get one made for him; though when the Organon Salutis was published, they were "commonly sold in London, and especially at the long shops in Westminster Hall."

As to the book, and the name of the author, I may add (with reference to Wood's Athen.), that in the copy before me, which is, like that referred to by Dr. Bliss, of the first edition (not the second mentioned by Aubrey as published in 1659), the author's name does not appear on the title-page at all. There we find only "By W. R. of Gray's Inne, Esq. Experto credo" [sic]; and really one seems as if one could believe any thing from a man who had habitually used such medicines, for I have said nothing of his infusion of tobacco, for which you must—

"Take a quarter of a pound of Tobacco, and a quart of Ale, White-wine, or Sider, and three or four spoonfulls of Hony, and two pennyworth of Mace; And infuse these by a soft fire, in a close earthen pot, to the consumption of almost the one-half, and then you may take from two spoonfulls to twelve [no tea-spoons in those days], and drink it in a cup with Ale or Beer."

One could, I say, believe almost any thing from a gentleman who under such a course of discipline was approaching the age of fourscore; but though the title-page has only his initials, the Dedication to the Marquess of Dorchester, and the letter to Sir Henry Blount, are both signed "Will. Rumsey."

S. R. M.

[Footnote 3: See Vol. i. pp. 124. 139. 156. 242. 300. and 399.]

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I am very desirous of gaining some knowledge respecting the following MSS., especially as regards their locality at the present time. Perhaps some of your numerous readers can help me to the information which I seek.

1. "Whitelocke's Labours remembered in the Annales of his Life, written for the use of his Children." This valuable MS. contains a most minute and curious account of the performance of Shirley's masque, entitled The Triumphs of Peace. In 1789, when Dr. Burney published the third volume of his History of Music, it was in the possession of Dr. Morton of the British Museum.—Query, Was Dr. Morton's library disposed of by auction, or what was its destiny?

2. "A MS. Treatise on the Art of Illumination, written in the year 1525." This MS. is said by Edward Rowe Mores, in his Dissertation upon English Typographical Founders, to have been in the possession of Humphrey Wanley, who by its help "refreshed the injured or decayed illuminations in the library of the Earl of Oxford." The MS. was transcribed by Miss Elstob in 1710, and a copy of her transcript was in the possession of Mr. George Ballard. Where now is the original?

3. "A Memorandum-book in the handwriting of Paul Bowes, Esq., son of Sir Thomas Bowes, of London, and of Bromley Hall, Essex, Knight, and dated 1673." In 1783 this MS., which contains some highly interesting and important information, was in the possession of a gentleman named Broke, of Nacton in Suffolk, a descendant from the Bowes family; but I have not been able to trace it further.

4. "The Negotiations of Thomas Wolsey, Cardinall." This valuable MS. was in the collection of Dr. Farmer, who wrote on the fly-leaf,—

"I believe several of the Letters and State Papers in this volume have not been published; three or four are printed in the collections at the end of Dr. Fiddes' Life of Wolsey, from a MS. in the Yelverton Library."

If I remember rightly, the late Richard Heber afterwards came into the possession of this curious and important volume. It is lamentable to think of the dispersion of poor Heber's manuscripts.


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Minor Queries.

Chantrey's Sleeping Children in Lichfield Cathedral.—In reference to a claim recently put forth on behalf of an individual to the merit of having designed and executed this celebrated monument, Mr. Peter Cunningham says (Literary Gazette, June 5.),—"The merit of the composition belongs to Chantrey and Stothard." As a regular reader of the "NOTES AND QUERIES," I shall feel obliged to Mr. Cunningham (whose name I am always glad to see as a correspondent) if he will be kind enough to inform me on what evidence he founds the title of Mr. Stothard to a share of the merit of a piece of sculpture, which is so generally attributed to the genius of Chantrey?


Viscount Dundee's Ring.—In the Letters of John Grahame of Claverhouse, Viscount of Dundee, printed for the Bannatyne Club in 1826, is a description and engraving of a ring containing some of Ld. Dundee's hair, with the letters V.D., surmounted by a coronet, worked on it in gold; and on the inside of the ring are engraved a skull, and the posey—"Great Dundee, for God and me, J. Rex."

The ring, which belonged to the family of Graham of Duntrune (representative of Viscount Dundee), has for several years been lost or mislaid; perhaps, through some of the numerous readers of the "NOTES AND QUERIES," information {71} might be obtained as to the place where that ring is at present preserved, and whether there would be any possibility of the family recovering it by purchase or otherwise.


Duntrune, near Dundee.

The Kilkenny Cats.—I would feel obliged if any of your correspondents could give me information as to the first, or any early, published allusion to the strange tale, modernly become proverbial, of the ferocity of the cats of Kilkenny. The story generally told is, that two of those animals fought in a sawpit with such ferocious determination that when the battle was over nothing could be found remaining of either combatant except his tail,—the marvellous inference to be drawn therefrom being, of course, that they had devoured each other. This ludicrous anecdote has, no doubt, been generally looked upon as an absurdity of the Joe Miller class; but this I conceive to be a mistake. I have not the least doubt that the story of the mutual destruction of the contending cats was an allegory designed to typify the utter ruin to which centuries of litigation and embroilment on the subject of conflicting rights and privileges tended to reduce the respective exchequers of the rival municipal bodies of Kilkenny and Irishtown,—separate corporations existing within the liberties of one city, and the boundaries of whose respective jurisdiction had never been marked out or defined by an authority to which either was willing to bow. Their struggles for precedency, and for the maintenance of alleged rights invaded, commenced A.D. 1377. (see Rot. Claus. 51 Ed. III. 76.), and were carried on with truly feline fierceness and implacability till the end of the seventeenth century, when it may fairly be considered that they had mutually devoured each other to the very tail, as we find their property all mortgaged, and see them each passing by-laws that their respective officers should be content with the dignity of their station, and forego all hope of salary till the suit at law with the other "pretended corporation" should be terminated, and the incumbrances thereby caused removed with the vanquishment of the enemy. Those who have taken the story of the Kilkenny cats in its literal sense have done grievous injustice to the character of the grimalkins of the "faire cittie," who are really quite as demure and quietly disposed a race of tabbies as it is in the nature of any such animals to be.



Robert de Welle.—Can any of your correspondents inform me of what family was Robert de Welle, who married Matilda, one of the co-heirs of Thomas de Clare, and in 15th Edward II. received seisin of possessions in Ireland, and a mediety of the Seneschalship of the Forest of Essex in her right? (Rotul. Original., Record Commission, pp. 266, 277.) And how came the Irish title of Baron Welles into the family of Knox?

Again, where can I meet with a song called the Derby Ram, very popular in my school-boy days, but of which I recollect only one stanza,—

"The man that killed the ram, Sir, Was up to his knees in blood; The boy that held the bucket, Sir, Was carried away in the flood."

I fancy it had an electioneering origin.

H. W.

Lady Slingsby.—Among many of the plays temp. Car. II. the name of "The Lady Slingsby" occurs in the list of performers composing the dramatis personae. Who was this Lady Slingsby?


God save the Queen.—Can any correspondent state the reason of the recent discontinuance of this brief but solemn and scriptural ejaculation, at the close of royal proclamations, letters, &c., read during the service of the Church?

J. H. M.

Meaning of Steyne—Origin of Adur.—Can any of your correspondents give the derivation of the word "Steyne," as used at Brighton, for instance? or the origin of the name "Adur," a small river running into the sea at Shoreham?


Col. Lilburn.—Who was the author of a book called Lieut.-Colonel John Lilburn tryed and cast, or his Case and Craft discovered, &c., &c., published by authority, 1653?

P. S. W. E.

French Verses.—Will one of your readers kindly inform me from what French poet the two following stanzas are taken?

"La Mort a des rigueurs a nulle autre pareilles. On a beau la prier, La cruelle, qu'elle est, se bouche les oreilles, Et nous laisse crier.

"Le pauvre en sa cabane, que le chaume couvre, Est sujet a ses lois; Et la garde qui veille aux barrieres du Louvre N'en defend pas les rois."

E. R. C. B.

Our World.—I once heard a lady repeat the following pithy lines, and shall be glad if any of your readers can tell me who is the author, and where they first appeared,

"'Tis a very good world to live in— To lend, and to spend, and to give in; But to beg, or to borrow, or ask for one's own, 'Tis the very worst world that ever was known."

D. V. S.

Home, April 29.

Porson's Imposition.—When Porson was at Cambridge, his tutor lent him a pound to buy books, which he spent in getting drunk at a {72} tavern. The tutor set him an imposition, which he made to consist in a dog-Greek poem, giving an account of the affair. These were the three first lines,—

[Greek: "Tutor emoi men poundon elendeto; os mala simplos] [Greek: Ton men ego spendon kata domata redlionoio,] [Greek: Drinkomenos kai rhoromenos dia nukta bebaios."]

Then part of another,—

[Greek: "—autar ego megalois klubboisin ebanchthen."]

I cannot but think that some Cambridge men know the whole, which would be invaluable to retrieve. There is nothing about it in Kidd.

C. B.

Alice Rolle.—Can any of your readers conversant with Irish pedigrees, if they remember to have met with this lady's name, kindly inform me where it may be found?

S. S. S.

The Meaning of "Race" in Ship-building.—In Hawkin's Voyages ("Hakluyt Society, 1847"), p. 199., he says, "Here is offerred to speak of a point much canvassed amongst carpenters and sea-captains, diversely maintained but yet undetermined, that is, whether the race, or loftie built shippe, bee best for the merchant;" and again, p. 219.: "A third and last cause of the losse of sundry of our men, most worthy of note for all captains, owners, and carpenters, was the race building of our ship, the onely fault she had," &c. Can any of your correspondents explain what is meant by "race"; the editor of the Voyages, Captain C. R. D. Bethune, R.N., confesses himself unable to explain it.

E. N. W.

Southwark, May 27. 1850.

The Battle of Death.—I possess a curious old print entitled "The Battle of Death against all Creatures, and the Desolation wrought by Time." It bears the engraver's name, "Robert Smith," but no date. The figures, however, which are numerous, and comprise all ranks, seem to present the costume of the latter end of the 16th century. There is a long inscription in verse, and another in prose: query, who was the author of the verses, and what is the date of the engraving? As I am on the subject of prints, perhaps some person learned in such matters will also be kind enough to inform me what number constitutes a complete series of the engravings after Claude by Francis Vivares; and who was "Jean Rocque, Chirographaire du Roi," who executed several maps of portions of London, also a map of Kilkenny?

X. Y. A.

Kilkenny, June 8. 1850.

Execution of Charles I.—Is the name of the executioner known who beheaded King Charles I.? Is there any truth in the report that it was an Earl Stair?

P. S. W. E.

Morganitic Marriage.—In Ducange, &c., the adjective morganitic is connected with the morgangab (morning gift), which was usual from a husband to his wife the day after their marriage. How comes this adjective to be applied to marriages in which the wife does not take her husband's rank?


Lord Bacon's Palace and Gardens.—Will any of your architectural or landscape gardening readers inform me whether any attempts were ever made by any of our English sovereigns or nobility, or by any of our rich men of science and taste, to carry out, in practice, Lord Bacon's plans of a princely palace, or a prince-like garden, as so graphically and so beautifully described in his Essays, xlv. and xlvi., "Of Building" and "Of Gardens"?

I cannot but think that if such an attempt was never made, the failure is discreditable to us as a nation; and that this work ought yet to be executed, as well for its own intrinsic beauty and excellence, as in honour of the name and fame of its great proposer.


June 24. 1850.

"Dies Irae, Dies Illa."—Will any of your correspondents oblige me by answering the following Queries. Who was the author of the extremely beautiful hymn, commencing—

"Dies irae, dies illa, Solvet soeclum in favilla Teste David cum Sibylla."

And in what book was it first printed?

A copy of it is contained in a small tract in our library, entitled Lyrica Sacra, excerpta ex Hymnis Ecclesiae Antiquis. Privatim excusa Romae, 1818. At the end of the preface is subscribed "T. M. Anglus." And on the title page in MS., "For the Rev. Dr. Milner, Dean of Carlisle, Master of Queen's College, in the University of Cambridge, from T. J. Mathia—" the rest of the name has been cut off in binding; it was probably Mathias. As here given, it has only twenty-seven lines. The original hymn is, I believe, much longer.


Queen's College, Cambridge.

Aubrey Family.—In Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, under the head "Aubrey," I find the following passage:—

"Vincent, Windsor Herald in the time of Elizabeth, compiled a pedigree of the family of Aubrey, which he commences thus:—'Saint Aubrey, of the blood royal of France, came into England with William the Conqueror, anno 1066, as the Chronicles of All Souls College testify, which are there to be seen tied to a chain of iron.'"

Can any of your readers give me any information respecting this "Saint Aubrey," whose name I have not been able to find in the Roll of Battle {73} Abbey: or respecting his son, Sir Reginald Aubrey, who aided Bernard de Newmarch in the conquest of the Marches of Wales, and any of his descendants?


Ogden Family.—The writer is very desirous of information as to the past history of a family of the name of Ogden. Dr. Samuel Ogden, the author of a volume of sermons, published in 1760, was a member of it. A branch of the family emigrated to America about 1700, and still exists there. They yet bear in their crest allusion to a tradition, that one of their family hid Charles II. in an oak, when pursued by his enemies. What authority is there for this story? I shall be grateful for any indications of sources of information that may seem likely to aid my researches.


* * * * *



It has often been noticed, that when a writer wishes to support some favourite hypothesis, he quite overlooks many important particulars that militate against his own view of the case. The Rev. Mr. Corser, in his valuable communication respecting Sir George Buc (Vol. ii., p. 38.), is not exempt from this accusation. He has omitted the statement of Malone, that "Sir George Buc died on the 28th of September, 1623." (Boswell's Shakspeare, iii. 59.) We know positively that in May 1622, Sir George, "by reason of sickness and indisposition of body, wherewith it hath pleased God to visit him, was become disabled and insufficient to undergo and perform" the duties of Master of the Revels; and it is equally positive that Malone would not so circumstantially have said, "Sir George Buc died on the 28th of September, 1623," without some good authority for so doing. It is only to be regretted that the learned commentator neglected to give that authority.

Mr. Corser wishes to show that Sir George Buc's days "were further prolonged till 1660;" but I think he is in error as to his conclusions, and that another George Buc must enter the field and divide the honours with his knightly namesake.

It is perfectly clear that a George Buc was living long after the date assigned as that of the death of Sir George, by Malone. This George Buck, for so he invariably spells his name, contributed a copy of verses to Yorke's Union of Honour, 1640; to Shirley's Poems, 1646; and to the folio edition of Beaumont and Fletcher's Plays, 1647. Ritson, then, when speaking of Sir George Buc's Great Plantagenet, as published in 1635, was rather hasty in pronouncing it as the work of "some fellow who assumed his name," because here is evidence that a person of the same name (if not Sir George himself, as Mr. Corser thinks) was living at the period. The name, if assumed in the case of the Great Plantagenet, would hardly have been kept up in the publications just alluded to.

In the British Museum, among the Cotton MSS. (Tiberius, E. X.), is preserved a MS. called "The history of King Richard the Third, comprised in five books, gathered and written by Sir G. Buc, Knight, Master of the King's Office of the Revels, and one of the gentlemen of his Majesty's Privy Chamber." This MS., which appears to have been the author's rough draft, is corrected by interlineations and erasements in every page. It is much injured by fire, but a part of the dedication to Sir Thomas Howard, the Earl of Arundel, &c., still remains, together with "an advertisement to the reader," which is dated "from the King's Office of the Revels, St. Peter's Hill, 1619." This history was first published in 1646, by George Buck, Esquire, who says, in his dedication to Philip, the Earl of Pembroke and Montgomery, "that he had collected these papers out of their dust." Here is evidence that the work was not published by the original compiler; besides, how can Mr. Corser reconcile his author's knighthood with the designations on the respective title-pages of The Great Plantagenet, and The History of Richard the Third? In the former the writer is styled "George Buck, Esquire," and in the latter, "George Buck, Gentleman." It is difficult to account for Mr. Corser's omission of these facts, because I am well assured, that, with his extensive knowledge of our earlier poets, my information is not new to him.

That there were two George Bucs in the seventeenth century, and both of them poets, cannot, I think, be doubted. Perhaps they were not even relations; at any rate, Mr. Corser's account of the parentage of one differs from mine entirely.

"He [Sir George Buc] was born at Ely, the eldest son of Robert Bucke, and Elizabeth, the daughter of Peter Lee of Brandon Ferry; the grandson of Robert Bucke, and Jane, the daughter of Clement Higham; the great-grandson of Sir John Bucke, who, having helped Richard to a horse on Bosworth Field, was attainted for his zeal."—Chalmers' Apology, p. 488.

The MS. now in Mr. Corser's possession occurs in the Bibliotheca Heberiana, Part xi. No. 98., and I observe, by referring to that volume, that the compiler has the following note:—

"This MS. is entirely in the handwriting of Sir George Buck, Master of the Revels in the reign of James I., as prepared by him for publication. The initials G. B. correspond with those of his name, and the handwriting is similar to a MS. Dedication of his poem to Lord Chancellor Egerton, which is preserved at Bridgewater House."

The authorship of The Famous History of St. George, then, rests solely upon the initials "G. B.," and the similarity of the handwriting to that of {74} Sir George Buc. Now it must be remembered that the MS. dedication was written in 1605, and the history after 1660! Surely an interval of fifty-five years must have made some difference in the penmanship of the worthy Master of the Revels. I think we must receive the comparison of handwritings with considerable caution; and, unless some of your readers can produce "new evidence" in favour of one or other of the claimants, I much fear that your reverend correspondent will have to exclaim with Master Ford in the play,—

"Buck. I would I could wash myself of the Buck!"


I am not quite certain that I can satisfactorily answer Mr. Corser's query; but at least I am able to show that a Sir George Buck, seised in fee of lands in Lincolnshire, did die in or about 1623. In the Report Office of the Court of Chancery is a Report made to Lord Keeper Williams by Sir Wm. Jones, who had been Lord Chief Justice in Ireland, dated the 10th Nov. 1623, respecting a suit referred to him by the Lord Keeper, in which Stephen Buck was plaintiff and Robert Buck defendant. In this report is contained a copy of the will of Sir George Buck, whom I supposed to be the Sir George Buck, the master of the Revels; and the will containing a singular clause, disinheriting his brother Robert because he was alleged to be a Jesuit, and it having been supposed that Sir George Buck died intestate, I published an extract from it in my Acta Cancellariae (Benning, 1847). On further examination of the whole of the document in question, I find it distinctly stated, and of course that statement was made on evidence adduced, that Sir George Buck was seised in fee of certain lands and tenements in Boston and Skydbrooke, both of which places, I need scarcely say, are in Lincolnshire. It is therefore, at least, not improbable that the testator was a native of Lincolnshire. It also appears that the proceedings in Chancery were instituted previously to June, 1623; and, inasmuch as Sir George Buck's will is recited in those proceedings, he must have died before they were commenced, and not in September, 1623, as I once supposed. It may, perhaps, aid Mr. Corser's researches to know that the will (which is not to be found at Doctors' Commons) mentions, besides the brother Robert, a sister, Cecilia Buck, who had a son, Stephen, who had a son, George Buck, whom his great uncle, Sir George, made ultimate heir to his lands in Lincolnshire.


Registrars' Office, Court of Chancery.

* * * * *


Your SEXAGENARIAN who dates from "Shooter's Hill," has not hit the mark when he suggests that Anna Bouleyn's marriage with Henry VIII. (in the teeth of the Church) is the hidden mystery of the popular old song,—

"Sir Frog he would a-wooing go, Whether his mother was willing or no."

That some courtship in the history of the British monarchy, leaving a deep impression on the public mind, gave rise to this generally diffused ballad, is exceedingly probable; but the style and wording of the song are evidently of a period much later than the age of Henry VIII. Might not the madcap adventure of Prince Charles with Buckingham into Spain, to woo the Infanta, be its real origin? "Heigho! for Antony Rowley" is the chorus. Now "Old Rowley" was a pet name for Charles the Second, as any reader of the Waverley Novels must recollect. No event was more likely to be talked about and sung about at the time, the adventurous nature of the trip being peculiarly adapted to the ballad-monger.


"A Frog he would a-wooing go" (Vol. ii., p. 45.)—Your correspondent T. S. D. is certainly right in his notion that the ballad of "A frog he would a-wooing go" is very old, however fanciful may be his conjecture about its personal or political application to Henry VIII. and Anne Boleyn. That it could not refer to "the Cavaliers and the Roundheads," another of T. S. D.'s notions, is clear from the fact, that it was entered at Stationers' Hall in November, 1581; as appears by the quotation made by Mr. Payne Collier, in his second volume of Extracts, printed for the Shakspeare Society last year. It runs thus:—

"Edward White. Lycensed unto him, &c., theis iiij. ballads followinge, that is to saie, A moste strange weddinge of the frogge and the mowse," &c.

Upon this entry Mr. Collier makes this note:

"The ballad can hardly be any other than the still well-known comic song 'A Frog he would a-wooing go.'"

It may have been even older than 1581, when Edward White entered it; for it is possible that it was then only a reprint of an earlier production. I, like Mr. Collier, have heard it sung "in our theatres and streets," and, like T. S. D., always fancied that it was ancient.


Rowley Powley.—As generally inclined to the belief that everything is older than anybody knows of, I am rather startled by "Rowley Powley" not being as old as myself. I remember seeing mentioned somewhere, without any reference to this chorus, that rowley powley is a name for a plump fowl, of which both "gammon and spinach" are posthumous connexions. I cannot help thinking that this may be a clue to some prior occurrence of the chorus, with or without {75} the song. If "derry down," which has been said to be druidical, were judged of by the last song it went with, how old would be the Druids?


"A Frog he would a-wooing go."—It may perhaps be interesting to some of your correspondents on the subject of "A frog he would a-wooing go," to know that there exists an Irish version of that woeful tale, which differs in several respects from the ballad which has so long been familiar to English ears. The burthen of "Heigho! says Rowley," does not occur in the Hibernian composition, but a still less intelligible chorus supplies its place. The air is exceedingly quaint, and seems to me to bear the stamp of antiquity. The words are as follow:—

"Misther Frog lived in a well, Heigho! my lanti-iddity! And the merry mouse in the mill, Terry heigho! for lang for liddity! Says Mr. Frog, 'I will go coort,' Heigho, &c. 'Saddle me nag and polish me boots!' Terry heigho, &c. Frog came to Lady Mouse's hall, Heigho, &c. Gave a rap and thundering call, Terry heigho, &c. 'Where is the people of this house?' Heigho, &c. 'Here am I,' says my Lady Mouse, Terry heigho, &c. 'I've come to court Miss Kitty here,' Heigho, &c. 'If that she can fancy me.' Terry heigho, &c. 'Uncle Rat is not at home;' Heigho, &c. 'He'll give you an answer—I have none,' Terry heigho, &c. Uncle Rat, when he came in, Heigho, &c. 'Who's been here since I left home?' Terry heigho, &c. 'Misther Frog, a worthy man;' Heigho, &c. 'Give him a wife, Sir, if you can,' Terry heigho, &c. 'Where shall we make the bride's bed?' Heigho, &c. 'Down below, in the Horse's Head.' Terry heigho, &c. 'What shall we have for the wedding supper?' Heigho, &c. 'A roasted potato and a roll o' butter.' Terry heigho, &c. Supper was laid down to dine, Heigho, &c. Changed a farthing and brought up wine, Terry heigho, &c. First come in was a nimble bee, Heigho, &c. With his fiddle upon his knee, Terry heigho, &c. Next come in was a creeping snail, Heigho, &c. With his bagpipes under his tail, Terry heigho, &c. Next came in was a neighbour's pig, Heigho, &c. 'Pray, good people, will ye play us a jig?' Terry heigho, &c. Next come in was a neighbour's hen, Heigho, &c. Took the fiddler by the wing, Terry heigho, &c. Next come in was a neighbour's duck, Heigho, &c. Swallow'd the piper, head and pluck, Terry heigho, &c. Next come in was a neighbour's cat, Heigho, &c. Took the young bride by the back, Terry heigho, &c. Misther Frog jumped down the well, Heigho, &c. 'Zounds, I'll never go coort again!' Terry heigho, &c. Uncle Rat run up a wall, Heigho, &c. 'Zounds, the divil's among you all!' Terry heigho, &c."

W. A. G.

* * * * *

Replies to Minor Queries.

Carucate of Land (Vol. ii., p. 9.).—The measure of the carucate was as indefinite in Edward III.'s time as at an earlier period. It then, as before, represented as much land as could be worked with one plough in a year. I am fortunately enabled to give your correspondent E.V. a precise answer to his Query. In a MS. survey of the Hospitallers' lands in England, taken under the direction of Prior Philip Thame, A.D. 1338, which I transcribed from the original, among the records of the order, I find in the "extent" of the "Camera de Hetherington in comitatu Northampton,"—

"Item. v Carucate terre continentes v^c acre terre: pretium cujuslibet, viij^d."

"Baejulia de Eycle (i. e. Eagle in Lincolnshire) cum membris."

"Et ibidem iiij. carucate terre, que continent v^c acras terre et apud le Wodehous iij carucate terre, que continent iij^c: pretium acre, vj^d."

Here we have a decided instance of the variation in the number of acres represented by the carucate. I have generally found that the nearest approximation to correctness, where no other evidence is at hand, is to consider the carucate as designating about 100 acres.

L. B. L.

Carucate of Land.—A case in point is given in the 33rd vol. of the Archaeologia, p. 271. The {76} carucate frequently consisted of eight bovatae of arable land; but the number of acres appears to have varied not only according to the quality of the soil, but according to the custom of husbandry of the shire: for where a two-years' course, or crop and fallow, was adopted, more land was adjudged to the carucate than where a three-years' course obtained, the land lying fallow not being reckoned or rateable. The object would appear to have been to obtain a carucate of equal value throughout the kingdom.

B. W.

Golden Frog and Sir John Poley (Vol. i., p. 214. and 372.).—Your correspondent GASTROS suggests that "to the Low Countries, the land of frogs, we must turn for the solution of this enigma," (Vol. i., p. 372.); accordingly, it appears from the treatise of Bircherodius on the Knights of the Elephant, an order of knighthood in Denmark, conferred upon none but persons of the first quality and merit, that a frog is among the devices adopted by them; and we need not further seek for a reason why this Symbolum Heroicum was worn by Sir John Poley, who served much under Christian, king of Denmark (Vol. i., p. 214.), and distinguished himself much by his military achievements in the Low Countries (p. 372.).

T. J.

The Poley Frog.—More than half a century ago, I was present when this singular appendage was the subject of conversation in a large literary party, but being then a schoolboy I made "no note of it." My recollection now is, that after some jokes on the name of Poley as that of a frog, allusion was made to an old court story of King James II. throwing a frog into the neck of William, third Earl of Pembroke. The story, with its consequences, may be found in the Tixall Letters, vol. i. p. 5.; Wood's Athenae Ox., vol. i. p. 546.; Park's Royal and Noble Authors, vol. ii. p. 249.

[Old English G].

I have never seen a head of any engraving of the portrait of Sir John Poley, of Boxsted Hall, not Bexstead. I believe there is none.


Bands (Vol. ii., p. 23.) are the descendants of the ruff a portion of the ordinary civil costume of the sixteenth century. In the reign of James I., the ruff was occasionally exchanged for a wide stiff collar, standing out horizontally and squarely, made of similar stuff, starched and wired, and sometimes edged like the ruff with lace. These collars were called bands. A good example occurs in the portrait of Shakspeare by Cornelius Jansen, engravings of which are well known. At the end of the seventeenth century these broad-falling bands were succeeded by the small Geneva bands, which have ever since been retained by our clergymen and councillors, but in a contracted form, having been originally bona fide collars, the ends of which hung negligently over the shoulders. (See Planche's Brit. Costume, pp. 350. 390.) Bands are worn by the ecclesiastics in France and Italy, as well as in England.

In the second number of Popular Tracts Illustrating the Prayer-Book, p. 3., it is suggested that bands are perhaps the remains of the amice, one of the eucharistic vestments in use previous to the Reformation, which consisted of a square cloth, so put on that one side, which was embroidered, formed a collar round the neck, whilst the rest hung behind like a hood. By analogy with the scarf of our Protestant clergy, which is clearly the stole of the Roman Church retained under a different name, this suggestion is not without some degree of plausibility.

The fact that the present academical costume is derived from the ordinary civil dress of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, sufficiently accounts for the retention of the bands as a part.


Surely bands are no part of the peculiar dress of the clergy, &c., but the ordinary dress of the people, retained by certain classes or professions, because they wished for something regular and distinctive. So the wigs of the judges were the fashionable dress 150 years ago. It is curious that the clergy have cut down their bands, while the lawyers still glory in comparatively large and flowing ones. Bands altered greatly in their form. Taylor, the Water Poet, I think, says—

"The eighth Henry, as I understand, Was the first prince that ever wore a band,"

or, indeed, person of any sort. The date of the same thing in France is mentioned in Vellay, but I forget it now.

C. B.

Bishops and their Precedence (Vol. ii., p. 9.).—It may interest your correspondent E. to refer to a passage in Baker's Chronicle, sub anno 1461, p. 204., which would tend to show that the precedency of the spiritual barons was at that period disputed. That writer says:—

"John Earl of Oxford, with his son Aubrey de Vere, &c., was convicted of treason and beheaded. John Earl of Oxford, in a former parliament, had disputed the question concerning the precedency of Temporal and Spiritual Barons, a bold attempt in those days, and by force of whose argument Judgment was given for the Lords Temporal."

Where will this judgment or any account of the dispute be found?


"Imprest" and "Debenture" (Vol. ii., p. 40.).—Imprest is derived from the Italian imprestare, to lend, which is im-praestare, (Fr. preter). Debentur, or Debenture (Lat. debeo), was originally a Customhouse term, meaning a certificate or ticket presented by an exporter, when a drawback or bounty was allowed on certain exported goods. Hence it seems {77} to mean a certificate acknowledging a debt, and promising payment at a specified time on the presentation of the certificate. Debentures are thus issued by railway companies when they borrow money, and the certificates for annual interest which accompany them are, so to speak, sub-debentures. Perhaps this may throw some light upon the matter.


Charade (Vol. i., p. 10.).—The charade cited by QUAESTOR is on my "Notes" as the "Bishop of Salisbury's," and the following answer is said to be by a clergyman:—

"Firm on the Rock of Christ, though lowly sprung, The Church invokes the Spirit's fiery Tongue; Those gracious breathings rouse but to controul The Storm and Struggle in the Sinner's Soul. Happy! ere long his carnal conflicts cease, And the Storm sinks in faith and gentle peace— Kings own its potent sway, and humbly bows The gilded diadem upon their brows— Its saving voice with Mercy speeds to all, But ah! how few who quicken at the call— Gentiles the favour'd 'little Flock' detest, And Abraham's children spit upon their rest. Once only since Creation's work, has night Curtain'd with dark'ning Clouds its saving light, What time the Ark majestically rode, Unscath'd upon the desolating flood— The Silver weigh'd for it, in all its strength For scarce three pounds were counted, while its length Traced in the Prophet's view with measur'd reed, Squared just a mile, as Rabbins are agreed— And now I feel entitled well to smile, Since Christ's Church bears the Palm in all our Isle."

I waited some time to see if any solution would be given of the charade; and I now send you the one in my possession, in default of a better.


Dutch Language (Vol. i., p. 383.).—E. V. asks what are the best modern books for acquiring a knowledge of the Dutch language. If E. V. insist upon modern books, he cannot have better than Hendrik Conscience's novels, or Gerrits's Zoon des Volks. I would, however, advise him to get a volume of Jacob Cats' Poems, the language of which is not antiquated, and is idiomatic without being difficult to a beginner.

H. B. C.

"Construe" and "Translate" (Vol ii., p. 22.).—It is very common, I apprehend, in language, for two words, originally of the same meaning, or two spellings of the same word, to be gradually appropriated by usage to two subordinate uses, applications, and meanings of the word respectively, and that merely by accident, as to which of the two is taken for one of the subdivisions, and which for the other. We have made such an appropriation in our own time,—despatch and dispatch.

It may be curious, however, to inquire how far back the distinction mentioned by your correspondent is found.

"Construe," originally, must probably have meant, not to turn from one language into another, but to explain the construction, or what is called by the Greek name syntax, much like what in regard to a single word is called parsing.

C. B.

Dutton Family (Vol. ii., p. 21.).—B. will find the Dutton proviso in the statute 17 Geo. II. explained by reference to Ormerod's Cheshire, vol. i. pp. 36. 477. 484.; Lyson's Cheshire; Blount's Antient Tenures, 298., &c. An early grant by one of the Lacy family transferred to Hugh de Dutton and his heirs "magistratum omnium leccatorum et meritricum totius Cestriae." In the fifteenth century the jurisdiction was claimed by the Dutton family, in respect of the lordship or manor of Dutton, and was then confined to a jurisdiction over the minstrels and musicians of the palatinate and city of Chester, who constituted, I presume, a department among the leccatores, or licorish fellows, mentioned above. In virtue of this jurisdiction the lord of Dutton had the advowry or "advocaria" of the minstrels of the district, and annually licensed them at a Court of Minstrelsy, where the homage consisted of a jury of sworn fiddlers; and certain dues, namely, flagons of wine and a lance or flagstaff, were yearly rendered to the lord. The last court was held in 1756.

As the early Vagrant Acts included "minstrels" in their definition of rogues and vagabonds, it is evident that the suitors of the Minstrelsy Court would have run the risk of commitment to the House of Correction and a whipping, if the acts had not specially excepted the franchise of the Dutton family from their operation. The earliest statutes are 14 Eliz. c. 5.; 39 Eliz. c. 4.; and 43 Eliz. c. 9. Section 27. of the last Act clearly shows that it was the power of licensing minstrels which the proviso of the acts was intended to save. The pedigree of the Dutton family will be found in the volume of Ormerod already cited.

E. S.

June 5. 1850.

"Laus tua, non tua fraus," &c. (Vol. i., p. 416.).—The lines were written by Philelphus on Pope Pius II., as is stated in the book called Les Bigarrures du Seigneur des Accords, p. 173. of the edit. 1662.

C. B.

In a small work, entitled Specimens of Macaronic Poetry, 8vo., 1831, the verses quoted by "O." are stated to have been written by some poet (not named) in praise of Pope Clement VI. or Pius II., but of which learned authorities do not agree. It seems the poet was afraid he might not receive such a reward as, according to his own estimate, he deserved, and therefore retained the power of converting his flattery into abuse, by simply giving {78} his friends the cue to commence from the last word, and begin backwards. The following are other verses of the same sort:—

AD JULIUM III. PONTIFICEM MAXIMUM. "Pontifici sua sint Divino Numine tuto Culmina, nec montes hos petat omnipotens."

AD CAROLUM V. CAESAREM. "Caesareum tibi sit felici sidere nomen, Carole, nec fatum sit tibi Caesareum."

W. G. S.

"O." is referred to a low and scurrilous translation, or rather imitation of the epigrams of Martial and others, purporting to be "by the Rev. Mr. Scott, M.A.," and published in London in 1773.

Therein the lines quoted by "O." are given, accompanied by a sorry attempt at translation; and the epigram is attributed to

"One Cianconius, a Dominican Friar, in honour of Pope Clement the Fourth."

A. E. B.


Mother of Thomas a Becket (Vol. i., pp. 415. 490.).—Thierry, in the 8th vol. of his Histoire de la Conquete de l'Angleterre par les Normands, quotes as an authority for the account of the Eastern origin of the mother of Thomas a Becket, Vita et Processus S. Thomae Cantuariensis, seu Quadripartita Historia, cap. ii. fol. 3.

W. G. S.

Medal of Stukeley.—In answer to Mr. BRITTON'S Queries (Vol. i., p. 122., and Vol. ii., p. 40.), I beg to inform him that the medal of Stukeley was executed soon after that eminent antiquary's death by an artist of the name of Gaal, who was not a die-sinker, but a modeller and chaser. The medal is rare, but not unique: I have one in my own collection, and I have, I think, seen one or two others. They are all cast in a mould and chased.


June 13. 1850.

Dulcarnon (Vol. i., p. 254.).—Has Dulcarnon any reference to the Hindostanee Dhoulcarnein, two-horned,—the epithet constantly applied in India to Alexander the Great, or Iskander, as they call him? It seems not a bad word for a dilemma or puzzle.

H. W.


Practice of Scalping.—Your correspondent T. J. will find in Mr. Layard's Nineveh and its Remains (vol. ii. p. 374.) the following note:—

"The Scythians scalped and flayed their enemies, and used their skins as horse trappings."—Herod. iv. 64.

G. R.


Scalping.—Perhaps your correspondent T. J. (Vol. ii., p. 12.) may recollect the allusion to "scalping," in Psalm lxviii. 21.; upon which verse an argument has been based in favour of the supposition, that the aborigines of America are derived from the ten tribes of Israel.


Derivation of Penny (Vol. i., pp. 384. 411.).—Akerman's Numismatic Manual (p. 228.) has, under the head of "Penny," the following remarks:—

"The penny is next in antiquity. It is first mentioned in the laws of Ina. The term has been derived by various writers from almost every European language; but the conjecture of Wachter, as noticed by Lye, seems the most reasonable. This writer derives it from the Celtic word pen, head; the heads of the Saxon princes being stamped on the earliest pennies. The fact of the testoon of later times having been so named, certainly adds weight to the opinion of Wachter."

W. G. S.

* * * * *


"By Hook or by Crook" (Vol. i., p. 405.).—The following extract may, perhaps, by multiplying instances, tend to corroborate the supposed origin of the above saying:—

"Not far from them [Peverell's Crosses], in the parish of Egloshayle, is another moonstone [granite] cross near Mount Charles, called the Prior's Cross, on which is cut the figure of a hook and a crook, in memory of the privilege granted by him to the poor of Bodmin, for gathering for fire-boot and house-boot such boughs and branches of such trees in his contiguous wood of Dunmere, as they could reach with a hook and a crook without further damage to the trees. From whence arose the Cornish proverb, they will have it by hook or by crook."—Hitchins and Drewe, Hist. Cornwall, p. 214. vol. ii. edit. 1824.


Burning dead Bodies.—In his remarks on "ashes to ashes," CINIS says (Vol. i., p.22.) that "the burning of the dead does not appear to be in itself an anti-christian ceremony," &c.: he is mistaken, for the early Christians, like the Jews, never burned their dead, but buried them. The catacombs of Rome and Naples, besides those in other places, were especially used for sepulture; and if CINIS wish for proofs, he will find an abundance in Rock's Hierurgia, t. ii. p. 802., &c.


Etymology of "Barbarian," &c.—Passow, in his Lexicon (ed. Liddell and Scott), s.v. [Greek: barbaros], observes that the word was originally applied to "all that were not Greeks, or that did not speak Greek. It was used of all defects which the Greeks thought foreign to themselves and natural to other nations: but as the Hellenes and Barbarians were most of all separated by language, the word had always especial reference to this [Greek: glossa barbara], Soph. Aj. 1263, &c." He considers the word as probably an onomatopoeion, to express the sound of a foreign tongue. (Cf. Gibbon, c. li.; Roth, Ueber {79} Sinn u. Gebrauch des Wortes Barbar. Nuernberg, 1814.) I am disposed to look for the root in the Hebr. [Hebrew: BARAR] "barār," separavit, in its Pilpel form, [Hebrew: BARBAR] "barbar;" hence, "one who is separated," "a foreigner." And even though Clel. Voc. 126., n., admits that purus, "clean," "separated from dross," originally signifies cleansing by fire, [Greek: pur], yet both it and far-farris, "bread-corn," i. e. separated from the husk, and fur-fur, "bran," which is separated from the flour, may find their origin possibly from the same source.

E. S. T.

Royal and distinguished Disinterments.—It is suggested that a volume of deep and general interest might be very easily formed by collecting and arranging the various notices that have from time to time appeared, of the disinterment of royal and distinguished personages. This hint seems deserving of the attention of Messrs. Nichols.

J. H. M.

* * * * *



The great interest excited by the further discovery in August last, of tesselated pavements at Cirencester induced Professor Buckman and Mr. Newmarch at once to issue proposals for a work, descriptive not only of those beautiful specimens of Roman art, but also of all such other of the numerous remains found in the same locality as they could satisfactorily identify. The result was, such a well-filled Subscription List, and such ready co-operation on the part of those who had collectetd and preserved such objects, as have enabled these Gentlemen to produce, under the title of Illustrations of the Remains of Roman Art in Cirencester, the Site of Ancient Corinium, a work which will not only gratify the antiquary by its details, and the beauty and fidelity of its engravings, but enable the general reader, without any great exercise of imagination, to picture to himself the social condition of Corinium when garrisoned by Roman cohorts,

"'Ere the wide arch of the ranged Empire fell."

To the grandeur of form, dignity of character, and great breadth of treatment exhibited in these Pavements,—Mr. Westmacott, the Royal Academician, bears his testimony; and the fidelity with which they have been copied in the valuable work before us reflects the highest credit upon all parties engaged in its production.

Messrs. Puttick and Simpson (191. Piccadilly) will sell on Wednesday next an extraordinary Collection of MSS., comprising a cotemporary MS. of Occleve's Poems, Autograph Poetry of Mary Queen of Scots; Legend of St. Molaisse, an Irish MS. of the 11th century, &c., and, among other things, many thousand early Charters, from the time of the Conqueror to the 17th century.

We have received the following Catalogues:—Charles Dolman's (61. New Bond Street) Catalogue of Books in various Languages; Supplement E., comprising many of the works of the Fathers, Ecclesiastical History, &c.; John Petheram's (94. High Holborn) Catalogue, Part CXIII., No. 7. for 1850, of Old and New Books.

* * * * *


(In continuation of Lists in former Nos.)

ARISTOTLE, Buhle's edition, vol. v.


KANT'S SAEMMTLICHE WERKE, edition of Schuberand Rosenkrantz (von Leipsic), Part XI.—Query, Has this eleventh part been published?

*** Letters, stating particulars and lowest price, carriage free, to be sent to Mr. BELL, Publisher of "NOTES AND QUERIES," 186. Fleet Street.

* * * * *

Notices to Correspondents.

VOLUME THE FIRST, Complete with Index, may now be had, price 9s. 6d., bound in cloth. THE INDEX, which we publish this day, is, we trust, sufficiently full to satisfy to the utmost the wishes of our Subscribers. We feel that, if called upon at any time to establish the utility of NOTES AND QUERIES, we may confidently point to the Index as a proof that the Literary Inquirer, be his particular branch of Study what it may, will not search in vain in our pages for valable Notes and Illustrations of it.

* * * * *

Just published in 8vo., with a Portrait and Plates, Price 12s., cloth; or, in royal 8vo. (large paper), Price 18s. 6d. cloth,

DILSTON HALL; or, Memoirs of the Right Hon. James Radcliff, Earl of Derwentwater, a Martyr in the Rebellion of 1715. To which is added, a visit to Bamburgh Castle; with an Account of Lord Crewe's Charities, and a Memoir of the Noble Founder. Forming the Second Series of Descriptive and Historical Notices of Northumbrian Churches and Castles. By WILLIAM SIDNEY GIBSON, Esq., F.S.A., F.G.S., Barrister-at-Law.


* * * * *

The following Periodical Works will be published on July 1.


HALF-HOURS WITH THE BEST AUTHORS. Part III., Price 6d. Issued also in Weekly Numbers, Price 11/2d.

PICTORIAL HALF-HOURS. Part II., Price 9d. Issued also in Weekly Numbers, Price 2d.

THE LAND WE LIVE IN. Part XXXIV. Price 1s., containing WESTMINSTER ABBEY, with a Map of WESTERN LONDON, and numerous Engravings on Wood.


*** Vol. X. is now ready, in cloth boards, price 5s.

RE-ISSUE OF THE NATIONAL CYCLOPAEDIA, in Monthly Volumes, cloth, Vol. VI., Price 5s.

On the same day will be published,

HALF-HOURS WITH THE BEST AUTHORS. The First Quarter, forming a Volume with a Frontispiece, containing Portraits of SPENSER, Lord BACON, JEREMY TAYLOR, and Dr. JOHNSON, handsomely bound in cloth, Price Half-a-Crown.

London: CHARLES KNIGHT, Fleet Street.


* * * * *

THE BARONIAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL ANTIQUITIES OF SCOTLAND. Illustrated by ROBERT WILLIAM BILLINGS and WILLIAM BURN, Architects. To be completed in Sixty Parts, of which Forty are published; each containing Four large Engravings on Steel, by J. H. LE KEUX and other Artists, and One or more Woodcuts, with Descriptive Letterpress; Price, in medium quarto, 2s. 6d. each.

"The 'Baronial and Ecclesiastical Antiquities' of Mr. Billings is the first work which, either in point of extent or of style, has any claim to be regarded as a collection worthy of the remains yet spared to Scotland."—Quarterly Review.

* * * * *

MEMORIALS OF THE CASTLE OF EDINBURGH. BY JAMES GRANT, Author of "Memoirs of Kirkaldy of Grange", &c. &c. With Twelve Illustrations, engraved on Wood by BRANSTON. In crown octavo, Price 7s. 6d.

"Of the different books of this nature that have fallen in our way, we do not remember one that has equalled Mr. Grant's 'Memorials of the Castle of Edinburgh.'"—The Spectator.

* * * * *

MEMOIRS AND ADVENTURES OF SIR WILLIAM KIRKALDY OF GRANGE, Knight, Commander of French Horse, Lord of the Secret Council, and Governor of the Castle of Edinburgh for Mary Queen of Scots. In One Vol., post octavo, Price 10s. 6d.

"It is seldom indeed that we find history so written,—in a style at once vigorous, perspicuous, and picturesque. The author's heart is thoroughly with his subject; and he exhibits, ever and anon, flashes of the old Scottish spirit, which we are glad to believe has not decayed from the land."—Blackwood's Magazine.

* * * * *

LAYS OF THE SCOTTISH CAVALIERS, AND OTHER POEMS. By WILLIAM EDMONSTOUNE AYTOUN, Professor of Rhetoric in the University of Edinburgh. Third Edition. With an APPENDIX, containing Examination of Statements in MACAULAY'S "HISTORY OF ENGLAND," relative to GRAHAME of Claverhouse. In fcp. octavo, Price 9s.

"Finer ballads than these, we are bold to say, are not to be found in the language."—The Times.

"A volume of verse which shows that Scotland has yet a poet. Full of the true fire, it now stirs and swells like a trumpet note—now sinks in cadences sad and wild as the wail of a Highland dirge."—Quarterly Review.

* * * * *

THE NEW STATISTICAL ACCOUNT OF SCOTLAND. In Fifteen large Volumes octavo, Price 16l. 10s.

The COUNTIES may be had separately.

* * * * *

WILLIAM BLACKWOOD and Sons, Edinburgh, and 37. Paternoster Row, London.

* * * * *

Next Week will be published, in Three Vols. 8vo., Price 2l. 8s.

A GLOSSARY OF TERMS USED IN GRECIAN, ROMAN, ITALIAN, and GOTHIC ARCHITECTURE, exemplified by upwards of Eighteen Hundred Illustrations drawn from the best Examples, and Engraved on Wood by JEWITT and other eminent Artists.

JOHN HENRY PARKER, Oxford and London.

Sold also by D. BOGUE, Fleet Street.

* * * * *


Now ready, Fourth Edition, with upwards of 100 Plates and Woodcuts, 2 vols. 8vo., 36s.

NINEVEH AND ITS REMAINS: being a Narrative of Researches and Discoveries amidst the Ruins of Assyria. With an Account of the Chaldean Christians of Kurdistan; the Yezidis, or Devil-worshippers; and an Enquiry into the Manners and Arts of the Ancient Assyrians. By AUSTEN H. LAYARD, D.C.L.

"This is, we think, the most extraordinary work of the present age, whether with reference to the wonderful discoveries it describes, its remarkable verification of our early biblical history, or the talent, courage, and perseverance of its author. We have had our Bruces and Mungo Parks, as well as our Parrys, Franklins, Backs, and Rosses, but we question whether a more enlightened or a more enterprising traveller than Mr. Layard is to be met with in the annals of our modern English history."—From the TIMES.

JOHN MURRAY, Albemarle Street.

* * * * *


IMPORTANT SERIES of ECCLESIASTICAL WORKS, Re-issued by WASHBOURNE, 18. New Bridge Street, and NUTT, 270. Strand.


Accompanied by an English Translation of the Historical Works, and a Life of the Author. Twelve vols., 8vo., 6l. 6s., reduced to 3l. 3s.

"A new Edition of Bede's Works is now published by Dr. Giles, who has made a discovery amongst MS. treasures, which can scarcely fail of presenting the Venerable Anglo-Saxon's Homilies in a far more trustworthy form than the press has hitherto produced them."—Soames' Note Mosheim, vol. ii.

ALDHELMI OPERA. 8vo., 10s. 6d., Reduced to 6s. Aldhelm was the first Bishop of Sherborne, 705-709.

BONIFACII OPERA OMNIA. Two vols., 21s., reduced to 12s. The English Apostle to the Germans, whose Martyrdom took place in 754.

LANFRANCI OPERA. Two vols., 8vo., 21s., reduced to 12s. The first Archbishop of Canterbury after the Conquest. His letters give a lively picture of the state of things in the reign of William.

THOMAE CANTUARIENSIS OPERA OMNIA, &c. Eight vols., 8vo., published at 4l. 16s. This includes the Letters Foliot, and Works of Herbert of Bosham.

ARNULFI EPISTOLAE ad HENRICUM II., ST. THOMAM, Arbh. Cant., et Alios, reduced to 6s. The Letters to Henry and Thomas a Beckett are curious and interesting.

JOANNIS SARESBERIENSIS OPERA OMNIA. Five vols., 8vo., published at 2l. 12s. 6d., reduced to 1l. 10s. Friend and Contemporary of Thomas a Beckett.

PETRI BLESENSIS (Bath Archiad.) OPERA OMNIA. Four vols., 8vo., published at 2l. 2s., reduced to 1l. 4s. His historical writings are highly valuable and curious.

This Important and Valuable Series, in Thirty-five Volumes 8vo., published at 19l. 3s. 6d., are at present offered at the reduced price of 9l. for the set.

N. B. The number of copies being small, early application should be made.

* * * * *

Printed by THOMAS CLARK SHAW, of No. 8. New Street Square at No. 5. New Street Square, in the Parish of St. Bride, in the City of London; and published by GEORGE BELL, of No. 186. Fleet Street, in the Parish of St. Dunstan in the West, in the City of London, Publisher, at No. 186. Fleet Street aforesaid.—Saturday, June 29, 1850.


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